Interview with 44flavours

How and when did you start your artistic work?

We met during the entrance examination for the graphic design course at the Bielefeld University of Applied Sciences. Before that, I had already studied art for two semesters at the Beaux-Arts in Brest and Toulouse. Sebastian had done several internships in the field of graphic design. Sebastian's father is a typesetter and has worked in pre-press for a long time, so he became interested in design and typography at an early age. From an early age he was part of various subcultures, such as the inline skating scene of the 90s in Oldenburg and Hamburg.
I, Julio, have been active in the graffiti scene since 1995 and started skateboarding as a teenager (I've been skateboarding again for a few years now). I think we were shaped by the subcultures of the 90s and the idea of working together as a community influenced us early on. This experience and our shared interest in niche areas was probably the reason why we got on so well from the start and moved into a shared flat as fellow students. A year later, we teamed up for our first joint project: 44flavours magazine, a publication that brought together different creative positions in a single issue. The magazine was then published at exhibitions where we had already shown our own work. In the beginning it was our own work that we combined, and at some point we started to create collaborative work. In 2008, after the studio, we officially established ourselves as a company and opened a studio as an artist duo in Berlin. In the beginning, we did a lot of design work for clients and also held exhibitions of our own work. Eventually the balance shifted in favour of our own artworks, which we gradually learned to sell better and better. Today we make our living from the sale of our work, from projects in public spaces and occasionally from applied design projects for clients.

Was this always your dream job?

When I was a little boy, I wanted to be an astronaut. Later, as a teenager, I dreamed of becoming a lawyer because I wanted to fight for human rights. I am glad that I eventually chose art. Sebastian wanted to be a fireman, I think! Later, however, he thought more seriously about becoming a carpenter or a product designer. Today, many of those early ideas are reflected in my work as an artist. This profession combines a wide range of different fields and skills: developing ideas, creating things, standing up for a cause, figuratively speaking, sitting in a rocket or putting out fires.

How do you prepare for a project? How long does a project take on average?

It varies greatly. We plan some projects six months to a year in advance, while others arise spontaneously. Often, the planning takes three to six months on average, while the implementation can be completed within one to two weeks or even in one to three days, depending on the effort involved. Sometimes we want to engage with a place and its surroundings and improvise completely on site. Projects like these are particularly exciting for our development – provided that we are completely trusted. Here, too, we prepare ourselves and define parameters in advance in order to at least have a starting point. Such projects often bring unforeseen insights and enable us to develop new approaches.

Classic preparation for a project in public space includes:

- initial discussions about ideas
- inspection of the location
- sketches and precise designs
- planning the realisation
- procuring materials

Depending on the time frame, these steps sometimes run in parallel. Exhibition projects often look quite different. Here we sometimes work a year in advance on works that are either selected and compiled by us or by curators. These works are then often presented spatially in combination with installations.

What are the biggest difficulties you often face?

Problems with the measurements often arise. Even the most detailed plans from architects often differ from reality. It's best to go there yourself and measure it – that saves work in the end. Sometimes we had to change entire designs when we realised on site that the measurements were wrong. That's exhausting. In such cases, a project where we can improvise completely is better. However, that can bring other problems with it, because you have to be in the right flow to create a strong piece. Routine and experience help with that. However, routine can sometimes also hinder the artistic creative process and requires a balancing act.

What has been your biggest/most beautiful project so far?

There are several projects that we count among our favourites: That's a good question, there are now quite a few projects that we would put in the top three. However, we think that the project in Svalbard, where we were invited by the then curator Eli Skatvedt of Artica in 2019 to implement our installation ‘Down to Earth’, was quite important for the development of our position. The experience of the trip, but also the consideration of how we interact with the breathtaking landscape there, was very exciting and educational. Most recently, we were invited to the Havana Biennial in autumn 2024. The project was very intense, full of experiences and absolutely spectacular. We had an exciting exchange with many international artists, but especially with many local actors. In total, we implemented four projects in two weeks, curated by Andrea Sunder-Plassmann, Tomasz Wendland, Pedro Ocejo and, of course, Nelson Ramirez. Despite all the difficulties that this trip entailed, in the end it was very educational and incredibly inspiring. Thanks to the support of the Michael Horbach Foundation from Cologne, our collector Patrick van Aaken and, of course, your material support, we were able to make this project possible. The third project we would like to mention is our installation in public space ‘A Topographic Landscape, Painted’ in Logroño, Spain, for the Concentrico Festival for Art and Architecture, curated by Javier Peña and financed by the Goethe-Institut Madrid. We created a three-dimensional painting in a car park and brought it back to life with our work. The moment when the installation was activated by different people was an absolute highlight of our career – very emotional! It's a great feeling to see that a project that you have thought about in theory has also been accepted in practice.

What has been the biggest challenge so far?

The projects mentioned above were all elaborate, but our trip to Cuba was particularly challenging. It is incredibly difficult to obtain materials there – practically everything has to be brought in. This resulted in an enormous amount of work, both in terms of organisation and implementation. In the end, everything went differently than planned, but it was still a success. Another very elaborate project was our exhibition at Kennedy Van der Laan, a law firm that has an impressive art collection and curates four exhibitions a year. We created an extremely complex wall installation there in March 2020. The realisation required precise planning and intensive work on site.

How does it feel when a work of art is completed?

It is a great feeling and certainly the result of long work processes. At the same time, however, it is also accompanied by melancholy, since the process itself is part of the work. In the moment when the work is completed, it is available to others, while for us it is finished. As soon as it is documented and perhaps published, we already turn our attention to other ideas and develop our position further. There is often no time to reflect on the work properly. It is then often exhibited or shown at another location in public space. We rarely return to look at the work – more for pragmatic reasons than because we don't want to see it. Other works are exhibited for a certain period of time, sold in the best case, and then installed at someone's home. In other cases, they are stored and then brought out again for later exhibitions and combined with other works. Some works spend months, some even years in storage. It is important to let go. At the same time, however, it is also very rewarding to look at older works again and reflect on them in a new way. That's why it was so important for us to publish our first book. In the course of this, we have once again completely reviewed, reflected on and viewed our work from a new perspective. We have learnt a lot from this project. We think that this was a very important experience for us as an artist duo, as we have summarised the last 20 years of our position.

What would your dream project look like?

At the moment, we would be incredibly happy if we had enough time to plan and produce a new work in peace and quiet. Research and studio time are very precious. The dream would be to receive a grant or scholarship that would give us more time to develop. As far as new challenges are concerned, we could very well imagine installations such as art-in-architecture projects – sculptures in public spaces that are not only temporary but permanently integrated into the architecture.

What do you enjoy most about your work?

We like the exchange with others, the collaboration, the joint process, but also the moments when we can completely dive into the painting or ceramics and immerse ourselves in it, almost meditatively, and then also the reflection on it in exchange with others.

What do you love about our colours?

The opacity and yet the ability to be breathable, that it is natural, mineral-based. The colour application, the depth of the shade, the opacity and the matt, dull, sometimes earthy tones. Yet the possibility of creating great contrasts.

Which is your favourite KEIM product?

Soldalit!